lomcujQ/ £dli)oru'[^e^

A SELECTIVE MICROFILM EDITION

EARTH

(1879-1886)

Thomas E. Je£Erey

Microfilm Editor and Associate Director

Paul B. Israel Assistant Editor

Mary Ann Hellrigel Douglas G. Tarr

David W. Hutchings Robert A. Rosenberg

Editorial Associates

Leonard DeGraaf Joseph P. Sullivan Alan Stein Karen Kozak

John Deasey Barbara B. Tomblin

Keith A. Nier Assistant Editor

Reese V. Jenkins Director and Editor

Sponsors

Rutgers, The State University of NewJersey NaUonal Park Service, Edison National Historic Site NewJersey Historical Commission Smithsonian Institution

University Publications of America Frederick, Maryland 1987

I permission of McGraw«Edison Company.

THOMAS A. EDISON PAPERS

Reese V. Jenkins Director and Editor

Thomas E.Jeffi'ey

Associate Director and Microfilm Editor

Paul B. Israel Robert A. Rosenberg Keith A. Nier Andrew Butrlca

Assistant to the Director Helen Endlck

Research Associates Douglas G. Tarr Mary Ann Heilrigel David W. Hutchings

Secretary' Grace Kurkowski

Joseph P. Sullivan Karen Kozak Granville Miller

Leonard DeGraaf Alan Stein

Student Assistants

BOARD OF SPONSORS

Rutgers, The State Universit>' of New Jersey

Edward J. Bloustein T. Alexander Pond Tilden G. Edelstcin John Gillis

New Jersey Historical Commission Bernard Bush Howard L Green

National Park Sen'ice, Edison Nationai Historic Site Roy W. Weaver Edward J. Pershey Smithsonian Institution Bernard Finn Arthur P. Moieila

EDITORIAL ADVISORY BOARD

James Brittain, Georgia Institute of Technology Alfred D. Chandler, Jr., Harvard University Neil Harris, University of Chicago Thomas Parke Hughes, University of Pennsylvania Arthur Link, Princeton University Nathan Reingold, Smithsonian Institution Robert E. Schofield, Iowa State University

CORPORATE ASSOCIATES

William C. Hittinger (chairman), RCA Corporation Edward J. Bloustein, Rutgers, The State University of NJ. Cees Bruynes, North American Philips Corporation Paul J. Christiansen, Charles Edison Fund Philip F, Dietz, Westinghouse Electric Corporation Roland W. Schmitt, General Electric Corporation Harold W. Sonn, Pubiic Service Eiectric and Gas Company Morris Tanenbaum, AT&T

FBVANCIAL CONTRIBUTORS

PRIVATE FOUNDATIONS PUBLIC FOUNDATIONS

Alfred P. Sloan Foundation National Science Inundation

Charles Edison Fund National Endowment for the Humanities

The Hyde and Watson Foundation Geraldine R. Dodge Foundation

A Note on the Sources

The pages which have been filmed are the best copies available. Every technical effort possible has been made to ensure legibility.

items contained on these reels may be made in order to facilitate research.

THOMAS A. EDISON PAPERS

A SELECTIVE MICROFILM EDITION PARTH (1879-1886)

Edison Electric Light Co. v. United States Electric Lighting Co. Volume V

Complainants Rebuttal - Depositions

^;CIRCU1T COURT OF TIIK UNITED STATES.

[■ SOUTHERN DISTRICT OP NEW TORE.

“vy;] - . IN ISQUITV. ;i446.

f::] THE EDISON ELECTRIC LIGHT COMPANY,

Complama.t,

THE UNITED STATES ELECTRIC LIGHTING COJIPANY, W'V Tkfcndant.

ON LETTERS PATENT No. 223,898.

VOL. V.

dOMPLAINANT’S REBUTTAL.

DEPOSITIONS

RXHIBITS.

EATON A- LEWIS,

Cvniphununt's S<i!i<;!lui‘x.

Cii’ARENCE A. SEWARD, f^BBOiSATiNOR LOWREY,

.MCHARD N. DYER,

te-r. 0/ Counsel.

DeiMisitlons— Con/iHutrf.

no 13.;

xnmiimtion . .

.

!A.:

xnmiimtion (Intorfcrenco

Doponi.

iiiiiimtion (Intcrfcroncc

Doiioni.

hxiuiiiimtion (Intcrforcnco Dep*

Kxnminalion (Iiitcrferciico Dop-'

inmiimtion (lIcKpcsjwrt

. 3006-3i:jr»

miiintion (ifcKocnport

Coinpliiliiimt’sEx!iiblt8-Oirereil-Con<;n«e(/.

Jlorton’H Government Koiwrt .

Scribner Mngiudno Article . 3604

NoUco of Jlotion to Pro<luce, First, of Mnrcb 10,

. . . .

Notice of Slotion, Aineiulcd, of September 10, 1890. . 3931

■■ Defendant’s, to Herrick and Hostings to Ap¬ pear, November 15, 1890 . 3932

Notice of November 24, 1890 . 3922

Motion to Fnnisb Herrick for Contempt. . . 3933

.* o •• Hastings ... 3933

Order of Court, April 8, 1890 . 393(1

o Novemlmr 5, 1890 . 3931

Paterson Press Article of September 2, 1882 . 3801

Koncwal of Motion of September 9, 1890 . 3931

Howland mid Barker PapiT . 3603

Sample Case of Edison Lamps . 3498

Sample of Coal-bir . 3492

o Lampblack . 3'*32

Tar Putty .

Siemens' Paper . ’I®”"

Tclegrapbic Jonnial Article of Octoliei 15,1878 - 360.1

Times Article of April 27, 1882 . 3801

Trant Letter .

Upton’s Scrilincr Article of February, 1880 . .1244

Dyer’s .iVflidavit of Jfarcli 27, 1890 . 3947

Electro-Djiimnic Light Hucord, March 20, 1879 - 3204

Kerr’s Letter of November 24, 1890 . 3924

NoUco of Motion to Prislucc, Fiist, of March 10,

1890 .

Notice of Motion, Amended, of September 10, 1890.. 39.).>

NoUce, Defendant’s, to Herrick and Hastings to

Aiipeor, November 15, 1890 . 3932

i Notice of November 24, 1890 . 3923

Notice of Motion to Punish Herrick for Contempt... 3933 f .< « o Hastings . . 3933

I Opinion of Lacombe, J., of October 18, 1890 . 3957

I o o o o .. November 24, 1890 . .3908

(Cirfuit Court of the ^luitrd J^tatro,

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK.

Tiik Edison Electihc Light Coji- I Coiupliiiimiit, [

riiiE(niity,3M5.

The United States EEEcniK; Ligh t- j

"^"''''Dofeiulaiit. j

- - J

Take Dotico that tlio coinplaiiiaiit in tlie above case will proceed to take testimony in rebuttal therein, un¬ der the OTtb Rule in Eipiity, as amended, before S. M. Hitchcock, Esq., a standing Examiner of the said Court on Monday, Ajiril 7tb, 1800, at 11 o’clock in the fore¬ noon, at the office of C. A. Seward, Esq., Xo. OO Xa.ssau street, Xcw I'ork City.

Xew Yohk, April 3d, 1890.

Rktiahi) X. Dvei!,

Of Counsel for Complainant.

To Messrs. Dunca.n, Clhtis .fc Paige,

Defendant’s Solicitors,

120 Broadway, Now Y’ork City.

Duo service of the above notice is hereby acknowl¬ edge this 3d day of April, 1890.

Du.ncan, Cuhtis it Page,

120 Broadway, N. Y'.

L. S. CIltCUIT COURT,

SOITIIKIIX UlSTllICT OF Nkw YoIIK.

The Edison Elec

1

Coji- I

The United Staixs ELErrim- Lioht- INO COMFANV.

In Equity, 3-145.

)

New Yohk, Ai.ril 7tii, 18U0.

Met imrsimnt to m.tieu ,.t tlio oflieo of C. A. S.»vnr.l, bit]., 1^0. 2!l N,is.s)iu street, lieforo Sumuel M. Hitoli- 'Wt ’’ " of tl*o U. S. Cireiiit

Pre.sent-Cl..AiiEN<'E A. Seiv.ahd, Esq., nnd Esq., on belmlf of tl.e coi.ipl„i,m„i. S..».ra.A. Di-ncan, EsQ.,un,l Leo.nahi, i-SQ., on iK'lmlf of the (Icfendnnt.

Richaih) X. E. CfiiTis,

Complainant's Rebuttal.

Iniieeordaueoivitl. tl.e stipulation entered into be-

a«c ll-r/v!!!" tt’" 'n'i""?' -®’

omiilaiirni’ l ^‘-'fo'a'init’s Record, eouusel for

on i Sn K ‘'*0 .leposi-

iatcl.elor Fr . -T IT Edison, Charles

iiitc-bi.l,..- Vh... : T. .. A. Julison, Charles

S-iw-ver w'lr* qP ffob'i* E- Garden, George Tt f’''S'Tnnd Walter K. Griffin.

Stipulation of Counsel.

3003

Counsel for coinplniuaut state that under the stip¬ ulations enabling counsel for dofondaut to introduce depositions apd exhibits from the McKeesport case, certain oxliibiU were introduced lus on behalf of com- ]>lainnnt in this case wliicli, not licing now accessible to complainant or having no material bearing upon this controversy, it is stipulated that such exhibits may be witlidmwn, nnd such exhibits so hereby withdrawn are described in the testimony taken from the .^fcKeesDort case ns follows :

'Defendants Exhibit Dynamo Rill," ollered on page 488, Vol. II. , jirinted record.

“Defendant's Exhibits Accounts nnd Jay I.s;ase,” oflerod at page 518, same vol.

“Defendant’s Exhibit Man Drawing, Deo. i)th,lSS7." offered at page 75!), same vol.

Defendant’s Exhibit Sawyer-Man-Koith Record,” offered at page 807, same vol.

“Defendant’s Exhibit Sawyer-Man-Maxim Record,” offered at same page.

“Defendant’s Exhibit Sawyer- JIan- Weston Record,” offered at same page.

Defendant’s Exhibt Sawyer .fc Man Electric Co.’s Lamp No. 1,” offered at page 032, same vol.

Defendant’s Exhibit Sawyer A. Man Electric Co.'s Lamp No. 2,” offered at page 933, same vol.

Defendant’s Exhibit Experimental Lamp produced by Man,” oflerod at page 941, same vol.

Defendant’s Exhibit Mau-Cheover Letter,” offered at page 947, same vol.

In view of the fact that the depositions of Etlison, Batchelor nnd Upton, taken from the McKeesport cilsc, wore made up iii part of depositions given still earlier in an interference proceeding, it is stiimlated that the dates when the different portions of the depositions were given may be taken from the interference case nnd inserted at the jjroper points in the depositions, sub¬ ject to corrections by either jiarty at any time before the hearing.

It is further stipulated that the following are correct copies of the depositions of Thomas A. Ellison, Charles

3001

Tliomas A. Edison.

Batcl.elor, Francis I{. Upton. Huyl. R. Gnnlen, Goorac ^^..Sawjer, William Sharp anilWaltcr K. Griffin as they appear in the reoor.l of the McKcoaport case, with the corrections as to ilatcs befora reforrcil to; and subject to the correction of any errors in tlio aforesai.l records which may hereafter bo discovered.

ISON S fiIoK££SPORT DEPOSITION.

UXJTED STATES CIRCUIT COURT

OiiAxoi:, X. ,1., March (!, 188!l. •Met pursuant to adjournment

Man a, 1 <="S0 between Sawyer A

ns a Dart 0^11' ' 1 “‘■°*«-e““ination)

thiscasrlnf-. Mr. Edison in

rialitv. w’hicln'ilv 1^ ‘•'o ““te-

henring. ' ^ '»«c. at the

Thomas A. Edison.

It is also stipulated that any objections found in said deposition, based upon peculiarities of Patent Office practice, sucb as that the testimony does not conform to the preliminarj’ statement, shall not bo considered |)ertinout in this case. In accordance with said stiimlntion, and Mr. Edi¬ son lining duly sworn, the Examiner is rc<iuestcd to copy into the record at this point Jlr. Edi¬ son’s deposition in the interference case.

Edison's Interference Deposition.

New Yoiik, June 11th, 1881.

Pursuant to ndjourninont the counsel for the resjiec- tivo parties apiicared before mo at No. (lo Fifth avenue. Now York City, at 11 o'clock A. 51., Geoiioe 5V. Dykii appearing ns counsel for Thomas A. Edison, and A.mos RitOAIiNAX ns counsel for Sawyer A Man.

IJy consent the questions and answers were reduced to writing by H. 5V. Seely, ho having lirst boon duly sworn to faitlifully and truly record the same.

Tjio.mas a. Ediko.s', a witness produced in his own be¬ half, being duly sworn, testified as follows in answer to questions proposed to biin by George W. Dyer, Coun- sed for Edison :

1 Q. Please state your ago and residence and occu¬ pation ?

A. Ago 34 I occupation, inventor ; residence Menlo Park, N. J.; for the time being living in New A'ork City.

2 Q. Please relate in detail your earliest exiieriments in the carbonization of paper ?

Question objected to unless the experiments were made, or to be used, or with a view of using

nilud witli clmrcoal powder. Sliects r laid in iron boxes, fifty to a Inin- loj) of wilieli was laid ii wuijjht of carbon wcjtild remain straii>lit after Also sheets of tbiek Bristol board ire were carbonized under strain to .Soiiieexperinionts were also made L'lneibles inaile out of Bristol board.

Ji- Sawyer A Jfau objects to the uiK to show that the invention was the date named in the iirclimiimry 1 so far as it bears on the mnkiug i-electrode of paper for tho olectrie

'i\u Were these experiments, and •, had knowledge of them ?

dioii iLs to former question.

aits were (pdte extensive. My in- do the business of making carbon lioses, electrical and chemical, for ^'dteries. A company cidled the

Thomas A. Erlison.

3007

in connection with a gcntloman name Janies, who is now dead. Afr. Charles Batchelor, and I believe Mr. K H. .Tohnson, saw manj- of tho experiments. Mr. Adams, one of my assistants, now dead, helped me in the experiments. I would mention that we also car¬ bonized wood made up in various shapes, as well as pni)or.

4 Q. A\ hut wius the ipnilitv of the paper carbon ino- duced at that time in tho way you have described ?

Question objected to on tho same ground as before.

A. They wore very fait carbons after wo had got tho idea of carbonizing them under strain and pressure.

o Q. Did you, at that time, determinu the quality of those paper carbon strijis as to electrical resistance '!

Question objected to on the same ground as before.

A. Yes. tVe placed them in electrical circuits and worked sounders throughdhem. We also jilaced one of tho crucibles in circuit, and boiled water by the heat engendered by tho pa.ssage of tho current.

0 Q. Did you tost tho electrical resistance of this car¬ bonized pajier as-compared with various metals?

Objected to as impertinent.

A. Y’es, sir ; wo did, lus one of the uses of tho paper was to make rheostats, and we concluded that the car¬ bon would bo suitable for rheostats. The resistances of tho various strips wore not wide apart from each other. The resistance as compared to metal was verv much higher.

7 Q. Please state in detail your next exiieriments with carbonized jiaper, and when such experiments

A. Ml- next cx]>eriment with carbonized j’apor was tlio use of the same in a telephone, about May or June, 1877. Wo niailo telephones in which a great number

Iit'ssfs to .some of these) ex|ii)rimuiits, wliellier tlio boron, silicon, or carlion cxpcrinicnts I eminot sjiy. Also, Mr.' C'ljiirlcs Jiatcliclor, Adiinis. who is tloinl, nnd others whom I ciinnot reni.mih..r, saw these experinieuts. I think Herz and Field saw these ex|icrimentH in Seii- tendiiT of 1877.

8 Q. Pleas., explain as fnlly as yon can how those last-named experiments in 1877 were eondncte.l V -v. Two ro.Is of bness, sliding’ in beariiiKS formin{; the two poles of the batt..ry, lyid npon their ends small elamps n, «h.eh .litrerent snh.stances conld bo clamped. In the.se clamps strips of earbonized paiMirworu placed, a out an eighth of an inch wide nnd two inches louf,’.

he paper ns..,l for earhoniziiiK was bristol board. The earhon was bront;htnpt< It el tipiicklyox-

i.hze.1 and wits .h.stroye.l, im it was in the open air. At- temi.ts were ma.le to coat the carbon with powdered

pieseru).t. llnsdnlnot work. Then experimenU were

not oxidize when in incandescoiiee in the open air Also "Pon boron: but th.-se did not sncceed In, .m aZ

Zdiu I .'Tn "‘7“ ‘’‘7'“’ "’"ko good

contact ,it the eleetrode.s. Aftonvards we tried the ox- P'riinent III .acno aith a com, non air pnmrbut tlm '•‘7'initl-tae acre able to get was so ZMlml Ibe eaJ,on oxidized almost as rapidly as it did in the air “f ‘1*0 constnietion used

Thomas .\. Edison.

3009

in your previous answer? If so, produce it. If yon have not such sketch, jilcaso make one now, to l)o at¬ tached as an exhibit in this ease?

A. I think I have the original appamtn.s, which I be¬ lieve I can produce, and will do so if possible.

10 Q. In this apparatus referred to, was the carbon¬ ized imper strip an incande.seent conductor .suitable for use in an electric lani|) ?

Question objecte.l to unless the strip was afterwards useil in an electric lamp, or intended for one at the time.

A. It was used as an ineandesceiit conductor in an electric lamp, but not under ]>roper conditions.

11 Q. When was this experiment made ?

A. I think about September, 1877.

ItJ Q. Why did you not refer to these experiments in your preliminary statement tiled in this interference?

Objected to as ineompeteiit, iiTri.levant nnd ininintcrial.

A. The cxporiincnts had, I think, .slijipcd my mem¬ ory when I made out the prcliuiinary statement.

13 Q. Plciise state in detail your next experiment in this connection ?

A. The next experiments took place, I think, in Oc¬ tober or Xovember, 1878. My a.ssistant, Jlr. Batch¬ elor, made a groat numlier of ])npcr carbons, fifty or upwards, which consisted of tissue paper and other kinds of paper, coated over their surface with a mixture of lampblack nnd tar, nnd then rolled up in the form represented by a knitting needle, and afterwards car¬ bonized by beat. These were included in electrical cir¬ cuits nud brought uii to incandescence in vacuo. They were also used in a lamp devised about tbe same time, which lamp is shown in ray patent 224,329, where the light was given by the incandescence of the carbon at the point of contact between the electrodes. The car¬ bon did not last very well in vacuo, and we found it

M \> ilut (le|;ree of nso wiis inn<H) of the electn lamp bust dcscrilaal 'i

A. 0 limiit tluan for sevural liotira at a tiino, bii tliu liost results were olitaincd with woo<l earhona.

lo (}. Are aa_v of tljos<' lamps now ia existence ?

A. 1 do not think so. I think there were one or twi made, and then used for other puipo.ses.

10 Does the drawini,' of the imteiit .you have jus refened to show fairly the constrmrtion of the him| which WILS mail.: and useil at the time named ?

A. ftiloes; hut we made other forms not shown ii Ihe patent. 1 have repre.sented these in a sketch whiel I now i)roduce, marked lulison Kxhihit 1. In this ex Inhit lij>ure 1 represents a. spring (i.seeiiretl to a pillar U rpon the extremity of the sjwing is a clamp c for se LUiring the earhon. The lower extremity of the carhoii rested upcm iridium pointed prongs c, ,1, /;atthei)oint .r the tension of tin; spring acting to press the carUii dightly against the iridinniiK.int.s. Sometimes thocnrnml vas passed through the wire./, through thence throngli ihe earhon to the points and out hv the wire which -■onnectod to all three points. At other times the enrreni ivHs ,,ass...d through the wire /,, theneo through tin mint across a portion of the earhon, theneo to the .omt .1 and wire k. This latter metho,! is shown hettei n figure 1. In this figure the spring .ris disimnsed '! ''“‘t’*'* '■ '** "•‘*>••<1 tu press the earhon against hetwoiridinm Iioiiite.l electrode.s e, The current mssiiig from -/ toe through a portion of the earhon ■‘'iscd It to hecoiiie incan.h.scent, and as fast as the a non wore away hy oxidation it was fed down hv the c .0.1 of the weight or even hy the weight of the ca'rhon .oiut/ ‘•»--

Ik. po nt /, rendering that portion of the earhon he-

Tliomas A. Edison.

3011

hotweoii the two jioints was hronght ahoiit hv the weight of the earhon paper. The whole apparatus was placed at an angle. In Figure 2J is shown ahont the angel at which the paper was [.laced, a: heinga limiting stoj) for the downward passage of the earhon. It was so armnged that if the points /, and k w.ire taken away the paper would fall hotween the snpiu.rt ./ and limiting stop X. Figure 3 bIiohs a inodificntiou of tin. appara¬ tus in Figure 1, a mercury cup being ,, laced on the top of the carbon, in which a i.latina wire was in contact with the mercury, « being the mercury 011]., 7 the I.latina wire. In the Patent Xo. 224,32!) a ball of iridium wim used upon the upright metallic portion of tho electrode, upon whieh the contact hotween the carbon and tho iridium took phu.o, as seen in Figure 2 oHlie drawing of tho ahove-meiitioiiod patent.

17 Q. In tho instances named of Patent 221,320, and the modilicntions just explained hy you and shown in your Exhibit X'o. 1, were tho coiidiictoi-s of carbon¬ ized paper?

A. Yes, sir. .A great many of theta were carhouized paper— a few were made out of wood.

18 Q. In all the nhovo-uamod instances was provis¬ ion inado to keep the electric continuity intact, and l.revent tho forniatioii of an electric spark ?

A. Provision was always iiindo for the passage of a continuous current, tho light given was partially due to an arc and partially to eloctricid ineaudcsccuce.

If) Q. Can you give any instniices of electric lamps of other inventors operating in .substantially the sumo way ?

Question objected to as iucompetont, imperti¬ nent and irrelevant.

A. I believe the Wordormaii lamp operates in the same manner, also the Joel lamp, now operating in London ; and I also believe Air. .Sawyer’s late lamps act somewhat on this principle.

20 Q. Are these experiments just described ns hnv-

: been made in October or Novemljor, 1878, referred in your prclimiiiarv .statoiiioiit ;

Question objected to ns iuicoiupeteut.

1. Yes, sir ; these and other experiments made nit the same time.

11 Q. Please relate fully the other experiments re¬ ed to in your previous answer ?

L. Wo, in November or December, 1878, bad our iium pump jilaced in order to conduct some oxperi- its on incandescent carbon conductors in vacuo, and tried a great number of experiments with paper car- s, wood carbons, and carbons made with carboni/ed am corn. 'Wlmt we desired at that date, and had eluded as the only iiossible solution of the subdiri- 1 of the electric light, was that the lamps must have gh resistance, and small radiating surface, so as to -•apablo of being worked in multi])le arc commor- ly, and our calculations showed us that the lamp it have at least ItlO ohms resistance to compute suc- ifully with giLs, otherwise, if the lamps were of low stance, the cost of the main conductors would be so it as to render the system uncommercial. What is int here by a subdivision of the electric light is, that ly thou.sand lamps could all bo placed U])OM n singlo iiit. and be entirely indepondunt of each other. We,

1 onr previous experiments, knew that wo could get requisite resistance and small radiating service issary for a commercial uso of the light, by menus arbonized paper, or wood ; and, tlieroforo, while king to accomplish this end by menus of platinum, mdeavored, by a more iiorfect vacuum, to obtain in lescent conductors of carbon, which would eive ns

9. The great jioiiit we desired was a lamp of bigl iistauce and small radiating surface, and it did no ttor very much whether it was of carbon, or of plati m. The neceasity of these features, and the neces y of the single lamp multiple arc sy.steni, is mori rticiilarly sot forth in a Hritish |ialcnt No. •2-l()'J ted the i7th of dune, lb7‘.t. in lines 12 to 87, inelu 0, 'id page. Also from line tIS, page 1, to lim , page 2, of U. S. patent ; 27,221). .Msi U. S. Patent 228,808. Nearly the whole of this jiat- t gives information on the subject. Itetuming to tin lerimcnts mentioned at the beginning of this answei incandescent paper, and other earlmns, wo fount! * endeavors blocked in the matter of obtaining lie idcsceiit conductors of high resistance and small ra- iting surface by the fact that wo could not makt ■III last for any length of time in the best vaeuum ob- liable with onr air-pump, which was coiisidercil ii )d one. lint when, in the course of our attempts tc ain thu same objects by means of incandescent ])lat- im, we had procured a Sprengel mcreury-pump and icrtainod tbat we could get exceedingly higb vacuo, iceurred to me that, perbaps. a tilainent of carbon lid bo mado to stand in the sealed glass vessel.^ ich wo wore using, exhaustod to a high vaeuum, and Octolior, 1871), wo made lamps of paper carbon and buns of cuinmon sewing thread placed in a receiver de entirely of glass, with the wires sealed therein by ion, and tbo wliole exhausted by a Sprengel mer- ■y-pump to nearly the one-milhoiith of an atmos- ire, and the.se tilaments of carbon, although exces- Jly fragile, owing to their small mass, had a smaller iatiiig surface and higher resistance than we had >ed : wo bad readied the conditions where, not-

lonoring of tlic vneimiii occiiiTcd to .lustroy tlio cnrbon. IIk.so uX]i<.-iiiiit:iit» ii'Kiiltod III tlio Iiiiiip iiiid various modilicntioiis and forms, moro particularly sot forth in Ill}' Patent 223,8‘J8, and in tlio application now in in¬ terference.

22 Q. Please stale what you were doing in the wav of experiments uiioii this subject lietweeu November or December, 1878, and October, 1879.

A. I was endeavoring to obtain a lamp of high resist¬ ance for instance, a hundred ohms with small ra¬ diating surface ; the former to permit of economical subdivision and the latter to permit of economy in the use of electric power ; and I used platinum and plat- inum-iridium wire during that time to attain this re¬ sult ; all of which are more particularly set forth in the patents which I have heretofore recited. In conduct¬ ing these exporiments wo made a great variety of phir- inuni him]is, in which a major portion of the wire was

so coiled as to not radiate light, to the end that the

lamp might have a high resistance. One of these fonns IS shown in my Patent 227,220.

I ‘o '““ko gliws

bulbs or shells especially adapted and used for electric incmuleHccnt lamps.

A. I think soiinmte lamps, iudopondeut of the air- immp, wore made either in Decombor, 1878, or Jan¬ uary, 1879, except the device used in 1877, which wis capable of being detached from the pump and [Jhiced in any posit i 1 ut ij i u, res oi is that the .^ vacuum bulb for an incandescent conductor that u ould hold Its vacuum was made in June or July, 1879. this was made entirely of glass, with the conducting uires sealed therein and the vacuum obtained with a prengelpump A platinum conductor was used with li?9 T?-in t «« August.

mfr’efls ‘o-night

ind refresh my memory on that point.

24 Q. When did you produce electric lamps with i candescent paper carbon conductors in vacuum bull hcrmcticnlly closed, so ns to be a i i i r mlly coi ideto lamp, capable of entering into competition wi; gas lights?

A. I niiido such n lain]) about October 22d, 1879, wliii had the charcteristics of high resistance, small radia ing surface and siiillcient stability and econoniv allow of competition with gas.

25 Q. What was the extent of your manufactiire ai u.so of such lnin]).s thereafter ?

A. We commenced immediately to make a miiiib of vacuum pumps and stiirtoil to manufacliire thei lamps of paper carbon with the pum|> we had on haiii During Novemlicr wo made a great number of lain] of this character, perhaps as niiiny as one huiidre These were put uji in the labomtory at Menlo I’ar and various cxperimeiits tried with them, among whii was II teat of their candle power, economy, resistnne lasting time at various degrees of incan'desence. 1 the latter end of November, 1879, wo commoiiced ojie ntions with a view to got our ilynnmo machines, regti liitors and wires, in order to make a public ijxhibitit of these lights.

What I iiieaii by a jiublie exhibition is a more gei ernl exhibition, as oveiything that I did in my labori tory for the last three or four years was seen by thoi siiiids of persons from all parts of the worlil. .A grei many peisous visited the laboratory to see the lights i operation in December, 1879, caused by an intiniatio in one of the daily pajiurs that my electric lights wei burning. But on December 21st, 1879, the New Yor Hendd ’’ published an account of my cxpcrinionts, copy of which article is now furnished, marked Edi sou’s Exhibit No. 2.

On December 25th, 1879, I had lighted up m labomtory, my office and two or three houses, situate about a fifth of a mile from the laboratory, and als about twenty street lights. On Now Year’s Eve, 187! about three thousand people visited Menlo Park, an thereafter to the present time all mt' experiments hav

ouluu iiiiiu 111 tiio opriiig OI loou i iigiiion up tlio stcaiiisliip Coliiiiibiii of tlio Ori'goii Stoniii Xnvigntioii Company witli about sovoiity-fivo to a Iiitiidrui] lamps coiitaiiiiiig paper carbons, wbicb coiitiniioil to light tbo sliip satisfactorily for sovoral moiitlis. Exhibitions of the same were made on the stcaiusliip Colnmliia, at Rio Janeiro, Rrazil ; Valparaiso, Chili; San Francisco, Califomia, and Portland, Oregon. I iiiidorstand some of the lamps were lighted during the voyage around Cape Horn, and were kept lighted from San Francisco to Portland on the regular trips for several mouths, and I have recently shipiicd sovoral hundred lamps to replace the ones broken. Since that time I have tried lui enormous inimbor of experinionts to cheapen the cost of my lamps, to incroaso their length of life, and economy and resist¬ ance. The nuclei for uiannfaotnring the lamps, estab¬ lished at Menlo Park, in N'ovember and Dccemlicr, 1879, have been expanded into two lanjo factories, one situated at Menlo Ihirk and the other at East Newark, N. J. The factory at Sleiilo Park emplovs about one hundred hands, turns out about one thousand lamps per day, and has manufactured about sixty thousand lamps. The factory at East Newark is being armiiged to manufacture fifty thousand lamps per day.

20 Q. Returiug now to the paper carbon incandescent lamps made by you in the winter of 1879-80, wlmt ac¬ tual use wore tliey subjected to, and what was tbo ex¬ tent of their durability as lights; also what was the tiuantity of light produced by each lamp according to gas standards?

Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial.

A. Each lamp gave about 12 to 10 candles of light.

“Kl run until they sere destroyed. Some of then, were run all day and

tho hours cnch one ran, whicli record I have liere. Tlio lamps are numliorod from 142 to 417. Examiniiij^ ti^ record to refresh my recollection, Iain able to state that, for instance, lanii> 1-12 lasted 404 hours ; lamp 159 lasted 480 hours ; lamp 189 lasted 217 hours ; lamp 255, 294 hours; lamp 223, 202 lioiirs ; laiiiji 107, 15 hours; lamp 204, .10 hours; 203, 17} houis; lamp 1.55, 280 hours: 201,280 hours; 101, 322 hours ; 172, 259 hours. Ijooking over the wliole record, I should judge the averago life was about 300 hours. I remember two lamps, one of wbicb lusted 1,350 houis, and aiiothcrono 940 hours, cut from tho same mold and of tho same size and same paper as tho lamps I have mentioned by num¬ bers. Tho nuiiibcrs I have given occur ou the pages of tlio book consecutively.

By ngrcuincnt of counsel, hero made, the book of record referred to in tho above answer is tendered to counsel for .Sawyer .k Man for use in crosH-examiiiation, and copies of so iiiucli of tho record ns 1ms liceti testitied about bv the witness, being pages 1 to 15 inclusive, are at¬ tached ns exhibits and marked Edison's Exhibit No. 3.

Tho taking of furtlicr testimony was adjourned until Monday, June 13, 1881, at 10 o'clock A. M., by consent, at the snino iiinco.

W.M. H. MiunowciioFT,

Notary Public,

New York Countv.

electric lnm|) in which experiments wore nmdo witli i paper oarln.n hron(>ht n]) to ineamlosccnee ii vacno. Tliis lamp was used altoiit September oi October, 1877. Tlie apparatus originally was one foi ilhistrating Cieisslor tnbe action in vacno. Tho basi of thc! apparatus lilted <.ver the hole in the platen ol the air inimp. It was then exhausted and the cocl turned to preserve tho vaeuum in tho globe of thi^ lamp Wo did not suceee.l in getting a higher vacuum than uuliineters on tlio niurciiry gauge, ami wo could not umko the carbons bum more ‘than a fow minutes at a time. Some of the carbons were brought up tn brilUant incandeseenee, and probably gave thirty or forty candles of light. Tho carbons were brought uj» to various degrees of ineandesconce. Tho carbons wore made of sheet paper, of various widths and thickness. I think they were made of llristol Isiard. They were from three-sixteenths to a sixteenth wide, and pridmbly irom eight to fifteen thousandths thick. I believe they vere carbonized in tubes nmdo of gius pipe. I cannot •emember whether they wore prepared at the time or vere on hand : we had an iniinenso collection of car- mnized paper and wood on hand, which we used iu >ur telephonic experiments, in 1877.

The lamp refeiTcd to in tho above answer is put in ovidence, and is marked Edison’s Ex-

Thomas A. Edison.

3010

Counsel for Sawyer .fc Man objects to the ex¬ hibit upon the ground that it goes to show, and is intended to show, that the invention was made jirovions to tho date alleged in the preliminary statement of Jlr. IMisoii, in this interference, and he objects to all that part of the answer that is intended to show or goes to prove that the in- vciitioii was made previous to the time alleged in such preliminary sbitement, and gives notice that 111)011 the hearing of this interference he will move to strike out the exhibit and all that part of tiio answer objected to.

28 Q. Can you exiilain now why you did not refer to this exhibit in your preliiniimry statement?

Objected to as incompetent, immaternd and irrelovant. Notice of inotion to strike out at the hearing.

A. 1 had forgotten about the experiments. I had forgotten that I had the exhibit, and it only came to my recollection .Saturday, in conversation with my as¬ sistant, Mr. llatchelor. The results were probably not sufliciontly satisfactory to impress it upon my mind. I try so many thousand experinients in all branches of physics that I sunictimes forget some of them. Thu preliminary statunicnt was made at a time when I was under great strain and crowdi-d with people at my laboratory.

Answer objected to on the same ground stated ill tho objection to tho question. Notice of mo¬ tion to strike out at the hearing.

29 Q. If you have any other exhibits found by you at Menlo Park on your late search, please produce such with full explanations?

Question objected to upon tho ground that it is incompetent, unless it is intended to call out ovidonco to show that tho invention was made

3020

Tliouias A. Edison.

siiljsequeiit to the Onto stated in tlio prolimiimr^ statement.

A. I present an exhibit wliieli serves to refresh mv leniory regarding tlie experiments tried on electric light 1 1877. The exliibit is dated November 1st, 1877, itnessed by Charles IJatchelor, myself and John .rnesi, and I know the signatures to be their handwrit- ig. In this exhibit is shown lamps giving light by the e 1 see 0 of boron, silieon and other snbstanc-s icinded in the electric circuit, such lamps being ar- inged in scries ii.,d ,.,„itiplu are. Ihe experiments ith carbonized pajicr in vacimni were made iirevioiis I the date of the exhibit of November Ist, 187'7.

Answer objected to ns intended to show that the invention in controversy was made previous to the date given in the preliminnij- statement of 3Ir. Edison.

Notice of motion to strike it out at the hear¬ ing.

Paper refened to put in evidence and marked Edi.son s Exhibit No. -1.

Exhibit objected to on the grounds stated in Iiust objection, and notice of motion to strike out repeated.

aaouier paper, datect December 3d, 7/, which serves, like Exhibit No. 4. to refresh my •niory regarding experiments with the paper carbon, as paper is witnessed by myself, Charles Batchelor d John Ernesi, and I know the signature to bo their ndwriting. It refreshes my memory im to the faet It wo wore trying to subdivide the electric light into mall number of burners, whore the circuit was closed

re elm" 'i r; «M>oriments

u luetedwith Imroii and silicon was bocauso they re not subject to oxidation like carbon, which wo had iviously tried, and which did not laaf na i

Thomas A. Edison.

3021

descent by the jiassago of the current. The results of the carbou experiments, and also of tbe boron and sili¬ con exiicrimcnts, were not considered suflicientiv satis¬ factory, when looked at in the commercial sense, to continue them at that time, nud they were laid aside.

The paper referred to in the above answer ])ut in testimony nud marked “Edison’s Exhibit

No. r,".

Paper Exhibit objected to as impertinent and irrelevant, and as intended to show that the in- vciitioii was made jirovious to the date meutioned in the prclimiiiary statement.

Notice of motion to strike it out at the hoar- ing.

30 Q. Please statu whether or not the paiicr Exhibits No. 4 and No. 5. were written at the dates given upon each of them 'i

A. Yes, sir ; they were.

31 Q. State whether or not your memory is distinct ns to the fact that the experiments with boron and sili¬ con, mentioned in these exhibits, were made after your experiments with carbonized paper conductors, and after the emiiloyinent of such conductors in the lamj) marked “Edison's Exhibit Eii-st Ineande.sccnt Lam])':' "

Same olijection as Ixiforc, and same motion.

A. I am certain it was before ; because we used boron to get rid of oxidation, to which the carbon was very sensitive.

32 Q. If yon have any other exhibits relative to the matter in tpicstion, found in your late search at Menlo, jdenso jirodnco the .same with exjdanatious '!

A. I present a lamj), which is one of my well-known carbon horseshoe lamjis, made, I